Our Lady of the
Roses on obedience:
"Pastors, you shall be called and shall you stand before, in
judgment, the Eternal Father and say that your teaching has been pure
in His sight? Better that you fear your God than man! Obedience?
Obedience is commanded by the Eternal Father for good, not for
evil!" Our Lady, May 26, 1976
TO THE SLAUGHTER
"You will not be led into false obedience, for in this way you
will be led as sheep to the slaughter." Our Lady,
September 7, 1971
"Obedience, My child, obedience—how sad that the true meaning
has met with distortion. Satan has used the rule of obedience to bring
about the destruction of souls. There is, My child, only one majesty
Who commands your obedience. This is the Father—the Father, the most
high God in heaven, the Kingdom of light. You must not honor man
before your God. You must not sell your soul to man! For you,
therefore, are selling your soul to the devil." Our
Lady, December 6, 1974
TO YOUR ELDERS
"We ask obedience, My child, to your elders but not when it is
misleading. You must search out the sheep and the goats. We do not
expect you to join the goats. Remember, My child, all will be judged
with a firm hand." Our Lady, October 2, 1974
true obedience to their God and not the mores of man. Much evil is
being condoned, disguised under the guise of obedience. Let us, My
children, call this a false obedience, clouded by errors and satanism."
Jesus, August 21, 1976
"My pastors, you shall not give as your excuse for your false
teachings, a rule of obedience! And who are you being obedient to but
satan? Shall you stand before Me and say that your teaching has been
pure in My sight? I say unto you, I shall spit you out as vipers into
the flames!" Jesus, September 28, 1976
"Bishops, awaken from your slumber! I repeat, My children, My
bishops, shall you be obedient to sin? Shall you unite and destroy
your Faith? Shall you compromise your Faith with the ultimate
destruction of souls?" Our Lady, December 24, 1975
ONLY ONE MASTER
"Obedience, My child, places many restrictions. You will
understand that many pastors, many men of God, face restrictions. It
may not be of their decision. However, a guide to clergy and the lay
people, My child, is truth. You will not sacrifice in any way your
soul for the things of your earthly world. Man has one master only,
the God who created him and his universe. Man will answer to only his
Master." Our Lady, September 7, 1973
"Many in My Son's Church have fallen away. Pray for your brothers
and sisters, My children. Pray for your bishops, your priests, who are
under great attack by reason of false obedience." Our
Lady, December 7, 1977
GOD NEVER CHANGES
"And God never changes. And neither must you change to please
man. But you must change always to please God. And obedience: there is
a false obedience, if you displease God, just to please
man." Our Lady, June 18, 1982
I HAVE CRIED
"I have wandered throughout the world crying to My children, and
My tears fall upon you, for as I have cried for obedience to your
Eternal Father in Heaven and, also, to Our Pope, Our poor Vicar, who
suffers much on the hands of the enemies of your God." Our
Lady, March 18, 1983
"O My children, what more can I say to you? What more can the
Eternal Father do to awaken you—you who are apathetic, not caring
until you are struck by destruction; you who watch as the warnings go
by, not caring until it enters your home; and you who go by like ducks
in the waters, not caring or wondering or questioning why you proceed
in that path; and you who, in your blindness; and you who, in your
blindness of blind obedience, have given yourselves to destruction and
destroying My Son's House in your obedience to man! No man shall be
obedient to satan." Our Lady, November 20, 1976
"If you compromise by pleasing those who have set themselves to
rule you, and if you compromise without the love of God and accepting
the will of God, and replacing it for the will of man, in obedience
that has been darkened by sin and false obedience—blind
obedience—no! You shall not cast aside your God to please any
man!" Our Lady, September 13, 1975
"Man has set himself into the web of satan by straying from the
path given by the Father. Discipline, self-discipline and obedience to
the rules of God are the only path." Our Lady, November
"My child, there is much confusion in the world. We ask
obedience—yes, We ask, My child, obedience. But this story I must
repeat to you. It is one of truth. Your obedience is to the Father in
heaven. Abraham directed to give his son as sacrifice: it is the law
of God, as written by Moses, that thou shalt not kill; but when the
Father had asked this sacrifice, he, Abraham, listened unto God, and
knew that the law of God first and above all is, 'Thou shalt honor the
Lord thy God with thy whole heart, with thy whole mind, and with thy
whole body.'" Our Lady, April 13, 1974
"You must recognize the forces of evil now loosed upon your
world, My children. You must not follow like sheep to the slaughter.
Your obedience is to the Eternal Father. We have given you through the
past ages the knowledge for your redemption. Man has set himself, in
his arrogance, up to be worshipped. No man shall place himself above
the Eternal Father! Man upon your earth is traveling the same road as
the fallen angels. His arrogance shall be his destruction."
Our Lady, February 10, 1975
"While you are upon earth you are there to do honor and glory to
your God in heaven. You must know Him, love Him, and serve Him in this
world, so that you will be happy with Him forever in the
next." Our Lady, June 1, 1978
MUCH IS EXPECTED
"For to whom much is given, much is expected; and discipline and
obedience means suffering and sacrifice. Unquestioning love,
unquestioning obedience, that is the only way to heaven."
May 30, 1981
Frequently asked questions (FAQs) about
Our Lady of the Roses, Mary Help of Mothers Apparition
Question - Is Bayside an approved apparition site? I heard
that the Catholic Church didn't approve Bayside.
This is probably the most frequently asked question
regarding Our Lady of the Roses Shrine at Bayside and requires some explanation. In 1986,
(after a period of sixteen years), a one- page statement was issued by the late Bishop Mugavero of
the Brooklyn diocese, which conveyed a negative judgment on the apparitions of Our
Lady and Our Lord to Veronica Lueken at Bayside.
The diocesan pronouncement does not
correspond to the truth and is therefore null and void, for the following reasons:
Veronica Lueken and the Shrine
workers were never approached and interviewed
in the context of a proper Church investigation, not even by telephone. Monsignor King
(who was serving in the Brooklyn diocese at the time) confirmed this statement in a
radio interview with a Canadian radio station. Therefore there could never have been any
investigation, as the principal witness, the seer herself, was never interviewed as part of what should have rightly been an
essential aspect of the formal
investigative process. The fact that the diocese intentionally sidestepped the
testimony of the principal witness should arouse legitimate concern.
In the words of Fr. Bernard Nunes, O.C.D., a Carmelite priest from India:
is it possible to have an official inquiry conducted into a reported
apparition and arrive at a conclusion without a close and careful
interrogation of the seer of the apparitions? In the matter of inquiry into
a private revelation or apparition, we are aware how much weight of the
investigation the Church throws on the interrogation of the seer, even
before scrutinising the reported messages or the evidence of miracles.
Strange as it may seem, this basic factor has been brushed aside with regard
to the Bayside apparitions. From Veronica's own affirmation we have it, that
not once was she ever summoned for interrogation by the investigation
committee; and for that matter in the five years since the beginning of the
apparitions, never was she summoned for cross-questioning either by the
clergy of the parish or by her bishop, though, on her part, she has never
failed to make the approach. With such a basic flaw in the official inquiry,
does the conclusion of the so-called investigation not leave one groggy with
disbelief. (Fr. Bernard Nunes, O.C.D., 1975)
- None of the Shrine workers, including Veronica's personal secretary, Mrs.
Ann Ferguson, has ever been questioned or interrogated.
- No attempt was made by the diocese to investigate any of the
thousands of miraculous cures, spiritual conversions,
and miraculous phenomena received by the faithful attending
the vigils or through the intercession of Our Lady of the Roses. What is one to
conclude when the diocese not only avoids the principal witness, but also
avoids all attempts to investigate the thousands of reported miracles and
even falsely denies that these miracles exist?
- It is impossible to obtain from the Brooklyn diocese the names
of the investigative committee, or even the most rudimentary documentation that provides
explicit dates when and where the "investigation" was conducted, etc.
- The fact that the Bishop Mugavero of Brooklyn had personally affixed
his name to the declaration on the apparitions does not bind Catholics under obedience or
pain of sin to disbelieve in or remain away from the prayer vigils or the apparition site.
According to the teachings of the Catholic Church, no matter how powerful
the superior may be, if what the superior commands or says is contrary to
the order of the truth, this does not oblige a person's conscience. Such a
command made in error or deceit is not a law; it is a usurpation of the law.
In St. Joan of Arc's trial before her bishop (Veronica, unlike St. Joan of
Arc, was not
even permitted to speak on her own behalf before her bishop),
St. Joan of Arc was unjustly accused by a recalcitrant bishop. It was 25 years before the erroneous judgment
made by St. Joan of Arc's bishop was officially overturned by the Church.
The similarities between the unjust proceedings and the subsequent unjust
verdicts given by the bishops of St. Joan of Arc and Veronica Lueken are
Furthermore, the Bishop of Brooklyn does not have the authority to operate outside the
truth, or outside the laws of the Church governing the investigation of
apparitions. It is a scandal to the Church that the Brooklyn diocese has misled Catholics throughout the world by claiming that an
objective and lawful investigation was conducted. Not only was a lawful
investigation never conducted, but the proceedings and conclusions would not
even stand up to the scrutiny of a secular court. Sadly, Catholics
throughout the world have been deceived and turned away from knowing the
truth about Our Lady of the Roses
- The reason that Our Lady of the Roses message is not
accepted by many (even the clergy), is indicated by Our Lady Herself:
do you reject the Message from Heaven because you fear it? Or do you prefer to
ignore it because it will expose your error? Pride! False pride, My children,
is the downfall of many. Cast aside this worldly pride! You have only one to
face when you come over the veil: it is the judgment of the Eternal Father.
You owe, My children, no allegiance to man who offends the Eternal Father. The
Commandments given by the Eternal Father must be followed."
- Our Lady, October 6, 1975
- Those who believe and promote Our Lady of the Roses
message in no way contest the apostolic authority of the Bishop of Brooklyn.
What we do contest is the diocesan chancery's claim to an "thorough
investigation" that (1) broke all the laws of truth and justice, (2)
that refused to question the seer, (3) that refused to examine witnesses to
the numerous reported miracles and cures, (4) that rendered a judgment that
did not correspond to truth, but merely expediency. No power on
earth has the right (and especially not a bishop) to twist or ignore facts
for personal gain. It is an affront to Our Lord Jesus Christ, it is an
affront to Our Lady. The perpetrators of this outrageous deception in
the Diocese of Brooklyn will be held accountable by God for their lies and
intentional misleading of the Catholic faithful.
Under Canon Law, ecclesiastical permission is not required for the publication of
revelations, visions, and miracles or with respect to the frequenting of non-recognized
places of apparitions. (See the Canon Law decrees abrogated below).
For those who do not recognize
God’s hand in the innumerable cures, conversions and other miracles that
have occurred over the years at Our Lady of the Roses Shrine (the chancellor
of Brooklyn has said, “If there are as many cures as they say there are,
then Lourdes and Fatima are nothing compared to Bayside”), as well as a
message in complete conformity to the authentic teachings of the Church,
perhaps we need to make a comparison between Veronica Lueken and St. Joan of
At the ecclesiastical trial
conducted by Church authorities against St. Joan of Arc in Rouen,
France, her English and Burgundian inquisitors were eager to have her
condemned as a heretic for largely political reasons. Joan defended herself
from the malicious charges with forthrightness, courage and wisdom. The
Bishop of Beavuais, under whose leadership the trial took place, pronounced
Joan a heretic and condemned her to burned at the stake (a Catholic bishop,
Twenty-five years later in 1456 an
ecclesiastical court declared Joan’s trial and condemnation INVALID DUE TO
FACTUAL AND LEGAL ERRORS.
(Note: unlike St. Joan of Arc,
Veronica was never permitted to defend herself before the bishop or those
who spoke against her contrary to Church law, and was also unjustly
“Are ye so foolish, ye children
of Israel, that without examination or knowledge of the truth, you have
condemned a daughter of Israel? Return to judgment, for they have borne
false witness against her.” (Daniel 13: 48-49)
We invite the faithful to personally contact the Public Information
Office of the diocese of Brooklyn, New York at (718) 399-5955 and formally request a
copy of the "full investigative report" regarding the Bayside
this date, the report does not exist.
It is very interesting to note that
Bishop Mugavero (the bishop who failed to properly investigate the apparitions),
died on Veronicas birthday, July 12, 1993.
Shrine at Bayside has continued to enjoy an ever growing and worldwide following for over
Our Lady to appear over St. Robert Bellarmine's Church at
Bayside, New York.
Our Lady - "Yes, My child, I am going about
the world appearing in various places, and I have reason for all. One day, My child, the
waters will come up at Bayside, and I will appear over the old church building. Your
Bishop then cannot deny My Appearances." (5-17-86)
Our Lady has assured us that the local Bishop [she did not say who
the Bishop would be] will receive an unquestionable miraculous sign when the time is right
which will attest beyond anyone's doubt to the authenticity of Her apparitions at Bayside.
There will soon be a miraculous
spring at Bayside.
It will be called the "Lourdes of America."
Our Lady - "You will
soon have a Well. With this Well, the waters will cure. When this Well erupts, it will not
be stopped by the clergy. You have reached the boundaries, and now My Son will step
in. The waters will not be capped; the waters will be given to the ill."
Our Lady - "I extend and dispense many graces
from the Father to all who will come seeking Our comfort. "There will be upon these
lands curative waters, and I have directed that there will be built an edifice that will
do honor to the Father. It will be a major instrument for the recovery of souls in this
city, which now stands forth second to Sodom."
Question - What is the actual Church Law (Canon Law) regarding
Answer - Ecclesiastical permission is not required for
publication of revelations, visions, miracles or for the frequenting of non-recognized
places of apparitions. A decree of the "Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine and the
Faith " was published in the "Official Acts of the Holy See" (A.A.S.)
58/16, dated December 29, 1966.
Articles 1399 and 2318 of Canon Law are abrogated by this decree.
This decree of abrogation was approved October 14, 1966 by His
Holiness the Sovereign Pontiff Paul Vl, who ordered at the same time its publication.
This approval by the Holy Father took place during an audience accorded
to His Eminence Cardinal Ottaviani, Pro-Prefect for the "Sacred Congregation for the
Doctrine and the Faith."
The decree was made in Rome, November 15, 1966. It bears the signatures
of: A. Cardinal Ottaviani, and Pro-Prefect P. Parente, Secretary
The decree took effect three months after its publication, hence on
March 29, 1967.
The Canon 1399 forbade by right the publication of certain books
such as those that deal with revelations, visions, prophecies and miracles. This Canon has been repealed. This means that as far as these publications are concerned,
the prohibition is lifted as to their being bound by ecclesiastical law.
This means that henceforth: Catholics are permitted without need of
Imprimatur, or of Nihil Obstat, or any other permission, to publish accounts of
revelations, visions, prophecies and miracles. Of course these publications must not put
in danger the Faith or the Morals: this is the general rule which every Catholic must
follow in all his actions, even journalists, especially journalists. There is hence no
longer any prohibition concerning the narrative of seers, be they recognized or not by
All the more reason is it permitted for Catholics to frequent places
of apparitions, even those not recognized by the Ordinaries of the diocese or by the Holy
Father: Granted that the Catholic visitors who frequent these places must respect the
Faith and the Morals. However, they are not subject to any ecclesiastical discipline, not
even for their pubic prayers.
Permission is required only for the celebration of Holy Mass or any
other religious service.
Canon 2318 carried penalties against those who violated the laws of
censure and prohibition.
This Canon is abrogated since 1966. None can incur ecclesiastical
censure for frequenting places of Apparitions even those not recognized by the Ordinaries
of dioceses or by the Holy Father.
Also, "those who would have incurred the censures treated in
Canon 2318 will be like absolved by the very fact of the abrogation of this Canon."
day, My child, the waters will come up at Bayside, and I will appear over
the old church building. Your
Bishop then cannot deny My Appearances.” – Our Lady, May 17, 1986
encourage everyone to print or email copies of this web page to all the Bishops
and all the clergy. Also, email or send this web page to the news media
and as many people as possible.
"My children, My little humble children, I appeal to you as your Mother,
go forward on foot, knock on the doors; bring the light to your brothers and
sisters. For those who have been given great grace, much is expected of
them." - Our Lady of the Roses, May 26, 1976
"As disciples of the latter days, My children, much shall be asked of you,
but I assure you: all that you give in faith and charity shall be returned to
- Jesus, June 1, 1978
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