“Luther at the Diet of Worms” by Anton von Werner These Last Days News - July 19, 2018
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Dialogue or Disassociation: What to Do with Heretics and Public Sinners in the Church...

EXCOMMUNICATE
"Pastors in the houses of your God, you must return from your wanderings and gather your straying sheep. Discipline must be returned. Holiness and piety must be returned. Heresy and heretics must be taken out of Rome! The power of excommunication must be used. You will cleanse the Eternal City now, or you will accept the sword!" - St. Michael, December 27, 1975

"Because of the arrogance and pride of My clergy, many of Our sheep, Our children, are lost to the Kingdom of Heaven. Many mitres are destined for the abyss. Heresy and apostasy abounds upon earth." - Jesus, June 18, 1979

The above Messages from Our Lord and Our Lady were given to Veronica Lueken at Bayside, New York. Read more

OnePeterFive.com reported on July 16, 2018:

by Eric Sammons

The watchword of the day is “dialogue.” Invoked by Church leaders like an Eastern mystical mantra, dialogue is the solution to every problem. Pro-abortion politicians claiming to be good Catholics? We need dialogue. Priests promoting same-sex relationships? We need dialogue. Millions of Catholics leaving the Church in droves? We need dialogue. No matter the issue, dialogue will make the world sing in perfect harmony.

But dialogue is not always the answer. Sometimes, in fact, the Church has embraced the opposite of dialogue – disassociation – as the proper means to address certain issues. Consider the problem of heretics and public sinners within the Church. What should we do when someone claims to be Catholic (or even is a priest or bishop) and yet acts in a manner fundamentally at odds with the Faith? Should we dialogue with him or disassociate from him?

Cut Off the Part to Save the Body

This is by no means a problem unique to the modern age. The first Christians faced it, too. Their answer was clear: the heretic or public sinner was to be ejected from the Church. They knew that the Church was the Body of Christ, and if one part of the Body was diseased, it was better to cut off that part than to let it infect the entire Body. This is just common sense. If you spend most of your time with people who abuse drugs, it’s likely that you will start to use drugs as well. If your close circle of friends are all communists, there’s a good chance you’ll end up quoting Marx and making red your favorite color. Allowing those who advocate for heresy or publicly promote and commit immorality to continue in good standing in the Church will lead to those evils infecting the whole Body of Christ.

St. John the Apostle specifically warned of the dangers of allowing heretics in the Church. He wrote, “If any one comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into the house or give him any greeting; for he who greets him shares his wicked work” (2 John 10-11). When St. John speaks of someone who “does not bring this doctrine,” he is referring to someone who embraces and teaches heresy. His command is to disassociate with the heretic, and in fact, if one does accept him, he “shares his wicked work.” In other words, he is as guilty of heresy as the heretic.

St. Paul had even harsher words about the dangers of accepting immorality within the Church. To the Christians in Corinth he wrote:

I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with immoral men; not at all meaning the immoral of this world, or the greedy and robbers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But rather I wrote to you not to associate with any one who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or robber – not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Drive out the wicked person from among you.” (1 Cor. 5:9-13)

A couple important points to note from this powerful – and politically incorrect – passage. First, St. Paul is speaking specifically of Christians who commit immorality. They are to be ousted from the Church. Also, and more shocking to modern ears, St. Paul says we are supposed to judge those in the Church who sin. So much for today’s supra-doctrine of tolerance.

Evangelization and Disassociation

But what of the command of Jesus to evangelize the world? Isn’t it the job of the Christian to reach out to the sinner and those in error and bring them to Christ? How can you do that if you never associate with them? Here is the key difference: we are called to evangelize those outside the Church, no matter how far from Christ they made be, but we are called to resist – even expel – those inside the Church who persistently embrace heresy or engage in immorality. St. Paul, the great Christian evangelizer, would go to the ends of the earth to bring the lost sheep into the fold, but he had no patience for allowing a notorious heretic or sinner to infect the Church from within.

We see this attitude in practice in the early Church. In the middle of the 2nd century, a popular preacher named Marcion was teaching heresy. One day, St. Polycarp – a disciple of St. John the Apostle – met Marcion. “Do you know who I am?” Marcion asked. Polycarp replied, “Yes, I know you very well, you firstborn of Satan!” There was no tolerance for heresy from Polycarp, a trait he learned at the feet of St. John himself.

Contrast that attitude with today. Fr. James Martin, the Jesuit priest who has a popular following based on his advocacy of the LGBT lifestyle, has been preaching heresy and encouraging immorality for years now, yet many inside the Church support him. Even many of those who embrace the Church’s teaching on homosexuality are hesitant to be too critical of him. Just look at noted Princeton professor and orthodox Catholic Robert George, who takes pains to promote his friendship with Fr. Martin. He defends his friendship as important “dialogue.” While George’s personal orthodoxy is beyond question and his exaltation of “dialogue” is in keeping with the current higher education ethos, his public acceptance of Fr. Martin appears to go against both St. Paul’s and St. John’s directives.

Dangers of Disassociation

In today’s Church, the charge of “Pharisee” will immediately be applied to those who take the approach I advocate here. To the modern mind, no crime is greater than intolerance of “alternative lifestyles” or unorthodox beliefs. And it’s true that there are dangers to avoid when it comes to disassociating with the heretic or notorious sinner. One can easily become self-righteous and see almost everyone as “unclean” and unworthy of association. But what I’m advocating (and what I think both St. John and St. Paul advocated) applies specifically to notorious and public heretics and sinners. It’s applicable to Fr. Martin, but not necessarily to your Catholic friend Jim who knows less about Catholicism than the average CNN anchor. It includes Nancy Pelosi, but not Aunt Nancy who was never taught about transubstantiation.

Another danger is a fortress mentality. That term has been overused in recent years to criticize the post-Trent Church, but it is nevertheless a legitimate concern. Every Catholic should always look outward, looking to evangelize. Yes, there are times when one has to protect one’s fortress, but the only long-term way to win a war is to go out into the battlefield. Retreating to our fortress is particularly a danger for traditionalists, who in reaction to fifty years of attacks from within the Church can sometimes see every non-traditional Catholic as the enemy, putting up walls to anyone outside the accepted community.

These potential dangers should not make us hesitant to resist evil when it infects our Church. St. John and St. Paul would have been scandalized by the tolerance for evil that we find within the Church today. We need to follow their example and reject evil in our midst, and even reject the evildoers.

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“The way to Heaven has been written in the Book of life, your Bible. We do not expect you to change it to please man, for man must change his ways that offend his God to please his God; for man must strive to be as perfect as God the Father to enter—in order to enter the Kingdom of God the Father. Therefore, you will not change the doctrines or go about with itching ears listening to theologians who have become now bloated with pride and arrogance and now seek to make man a god in his own world. But remember: every man, woman, and child upon earth will leave his body sooner or later, for he must die and pass over the veil for judgment." - Jesus, August 4, 1979

THE SWORD
"Mankind shall feel a sword upon his world. The Eternal Father has endured your apostasy, your arrogance, your heresy much too long! As an errant and ungrateful generation given to sin and abominations of the flesh, you shall be forced to your knees by trial." - St. Michael, July 15, 1975

TRAITORS
O ye of little faith, pride and arrogance in worldly knowledge! But you have closed the door to My sheep! Scattered them, become traitors to the Seat of Peter! I say unto you: You cannot understand, with all of your knowledge and your pride, the ways of the Eternal Father! There is a plan for each and every one of you in Heaven. You shall receive a just punishment for your arrogance, your apostasy, and your destruction of souls." - Jesus, October 6, 1978

EDITOR'S NOTE: We welcome your comments at the end of this page.

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Wars are a punishment for man's sins. Abortion, homosexuality, and the changes in the Catholic Church cry out to Heaven for just punishment.
When you pray the Holy Rosary, you have Our Lady's hand in your hand. When you pray the Holy Rosary, you have the power of God in your hands. Start now! Let's All Pray the Rosary Together Around the World for the conversion of all heretics... Click here...

The Virgin Mary's Bayside Prophecy Books are Now Available in E-book Version. Click Here Now!

Our Lady of the Roses Awesome Bayside Prophecies... http://www.tldm.org/Bayside/
These prophecies came from Jesus, Mary, and the saints to Veronica Lueken at Bayside, NY, from 1968 to 1995.

INDOCTRINATED IN HERESY
"Your children must be protected from the evils that abound in your school systems in your country and most nations throughout the world. They are being taught immorality and a loss of faith in the supernatural and the knowledge of their God. All manner of heresy has been indoctrinated into their youthful minds. It is a diabolical plan of Lucifer." - Our Lady, June 18, 1979

SPEAK OUT
"Many homes shall be torn asunder by the fall of the children. Parents shall shed tears of anguish. Therefore, prevent this now while your children are at a young age. Give them a firm foundation of their faith. Be not afraid to speak out against heresy and abominations, even if you have to do this against your clergy. For many now have fallen in with the modernists, the socialists, the communists, and some the satanists. Therefore, My children, I make known to you the crisis that lies ahead." - Our Lady, June 18, 1979

HERESY, APOSTASY ABOUND
"Because of the arrogance and pride of My clergy, many of Our sheep, Our children, are lost to the Kingdom of Heaven. Many mitres are destined for the abyss. Heresy and apostasy abounds upon earth." - Jesus, June 18, 1979

MOURNFUL HERESY
"Heresy, O mournful heresy! Pastors, this shall not be tolerated. You must not destroy Our young flowers, the children. You must nurture them with pure waters of faith. This faith must not be tainted by modernism and humanism. You have set upon the world a confusion of mind and a darkening of spirit." - Our Lady, November 20, 1975

MUST NOT COMPROMISE
"You must not compromise your Faith. You cannot lower your standards and bring others into My Son's Church, for you bring in all manner of heresy and abominations. By your example did you gather Our sheep, and by your example now do you scatter them. I say, as your Mother: Turn back from your road, for you are on the way to perdition." - Our Lady, June 5, 1976

HERESY PREVAILS
"Each man shall be accountable for his own soul. You shall not allow heresy to prevail in My House! You shall not permit the corruption and destruction of the young souls with error, fallacy, and heresy! You shall not, in the name of technology and science, corrupt the teachings given to you by those who came before you, sent by the Eternal Father to enlighten you on the path and the way to your Kingdom, the Kingdom of your God in Heaven!" - Jesus, February 10, 1976

HELL-HOLES OF HERESY
"Can you, O bishops, not spare but the little time to look into your seminaries? I say but one expression to you: they have become hell-holes of error and heresy! Clean out your seminaries, My bishops! My Son will lay upon you a heavy hand in penance! Is this what you want? Do you not have the courage of your convictions to stand by the truth of your Faith? Have you given yourselves to such foul sin, O bishops, in your personal lives that you do no longer recognize sin as being a way of life? Are you also condoning sin to become a way of life?" - Our Lady, October 2, 1976

HERESY IN THE CLASSROOMS
"And what are they teaching in the classrooms? Oh, my sister, you must tell the world—all the children of earth, of the Eternal Father—that they are teaching heresy! Oh, that's untruth. Satan is deluding many and poisoning their minds. Heresy, O mournful heresy!" - St. Theresa, May 17, 1975

LEGACY OF TRUTH
"I recognized, my child, the evils that were to fall upon the world. Search for the knowledge I have left to you. I, too, was enlightened by the Holy Spirit. Read well the legacy of truth* that I left to you. Modernism must be erased from your world!" - Pope St. Pius X, September 7, 1974

* Read especially the famous encyclical Pascendi Dominici Gregis (The Doctrine of the Modernists) by Pope St. Pius X.

Directives from Heaven... http://www.tldm.org/directives/directives.htm

D107 - Pride PDF
D161 - The Great Apostasy PDF
D164 - Heresy PDF
D341 - No Evil Is Ever Triumphant PDF
D564 - Admit Your Errors PDF

Articles...

Teilhard de Chardin is in hell
http://www.tldm.org/news6/teilhard.htm

Heresy, O mournful heresy!
http://www.tldm.org/news4/heresy.htm

Public dissenters and heretics in the Catholic Church
http://www.tldm.org/news6/dissenters.htm

Liberals "follow in the footsteps of Lucifer"
http://www.tldm.org/news7/LiberalsFollowLucifer.htm

Women "priests": a recent history
http://www.tldm.org/news4/womenpriests.htm

Women "priests" a heresy
http://www.tldm.org/news4/womenpriests2.htm

Bishop rules priest rendered "unfit" for priesthood over campaign for women priests
http://www.tldm.org/News8/WomenPriests4.htm

Bishop says that 2/3 of high school catechetical materials are faulty
http://www.tldm.org/news6/catechisms.htm

"Pro-choice" position is heresy says Oregon Catholic bishop
http://www.tldm.org/News9/ProChoiceHeresy.htm

Vatican confirms Bishop Bruskewitz justified in excommunicating Call to Action members in his diocese
http://www.tldm.org/News9/BruskewitzExcommunicatesCallToAction.htm

Repeated defiance of Rome: Cardinal Martini defies Pope; sabotages Church’s teaching on life
http://www.tldm.org/News10/EuthanasiaCardinalMartini.htm

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