Replies to Colin Donovan, Part 2...

Recently, Colin Donovan wrote an article for the ewtn.org website regarding Our Lady of the Roses apparitions, in addition to giving several answers in the “experts forum” that contradict Church tradition and Our Lady of the Roses message. We immediately noticed that Mr. Donovan had committed the same mistake as the Diocese of Brooklyn did in 1975 when, in the diocese's official statement, Veronica’s last name was misspelled (though the Brooklyn Diocese claims to have made a “thorough investigation”). We pray that those who have been misled by Mr. Donovan’s article against Our Lady of the Roses will prayerfully and studiously consider the replies we make to Mr. Donovan’s objections.

“Priests are correctly said to be validly ordained. Further, priests are ordained by bishops, not other priests.” - Mr. Donovan

Simplicity is one of the many hallmarks of Our Lady of the Roses message. In Our Lady’s own words, "I will now explain to you in simple language that you may understand” (November 25, 1978). She speaks to all. As such, the message is simply worded. But in spite of the simplicity of the message, Our Lady’s words are unbelievably precise. It takes a bit of research at times to uncover what Our Lady is actually saying, and why She is right.

We will answer Mr. Donovan’s two allegations: (1) that the phrase “legally ordained” used by Our Lady of the Roses is in error, and (2) that Our Lady’s of the Roses message states that priests are not ordained by bishops.

(1) “legally ordained” versus “validly ordained”

As mentioned above, Our Lady of the Roses message is directed to all, to young and old, the learned and unlearned. Our Lady is speaking not only to a minority of theologians, but to the whole world. Therefore, Our Lady for the most part uses simple language.

Mr. Donovan’s contends that Our Lady of the Roses message errs by not using the phrase “validly ordained,” suggesting that without using the word “valid,” the message shows itself to be false. Our Lady of the Roses message, however, uses the word “valid” many times, but in reference to the validity of the Novus Ordo Mass, the New Mass, the validity of which some call into question. The message states, "Do not lose faith in My Mass. It is valid. Man may distort, but it is valid, I say! When a legally ordained priest of the Roman Catholic Church conducts this Mass, it is valid, I say!" (Jesus, December 7, 1976)[1]

Mr. Donovan’s contention that Our Lady of the Roses is ignorant of the term “valid” is therefore false.

We now need to ask: why did Our Lady use the phrase “legally ordained” instead of “validly ordained”? Bearing in mind the target audience of Our Lady (everyone), we believe this question has a two-part answer: (a) “legally ordained” is commonly understood by most people, even those without theological training, and (b) "validly ordained" is not a sufficiently explanatory phrase; it is incomplete. For a precise phrase, you would also need to include the word "licitly" to read “validly and licitly ordained”, that is, according to Church law (interestingly enough, a synonym for “legally” is the word “licitly”). Otherwise, you have not made a distinction between an ordination conferred in union with the Church, and one performed schismatically. The word "licitly" would go over the heads of many Catholics, as many do not have a theological background to understand this term. Our Lady solves this problem by using the phrase "legally ordained", which is easily understood by all.

Regarding priestly ordination, Our Lady uses the phrase “legally ordained” to get double service out of the single word “legally” to mean “validly and licitly” ordained. The additional concept Our Lady is bringing into the picture by using the word “legally” is union with the Church, union with Rome. The phrase “legally ordained”, as a warning against schismatic ordination, is brought out in the October 6, 1980 message:

"Beware of those who start a new church among you. A Roman Catholic Church must have a legally ordained Roman Catholic Bishop, and the Old Catholic Church is not with Rome. It is a schismatic organization, and all who join these interlopers shall gain immediate excommunication by Heaven and through the legal hierarchy of Rome. The Old Catholic Church is schismatic, and is not, and shall not use the name Roman Catholic Church.” (Jesus, October 6, 1980).

This last quote answers, in part, Mr. Dovovan’s objection.

Our Lady of the Roses message also touches upon ordinations that are not legal, that are not in union with the Church. The October 6, 1976 message mentions one incident, regarding a man who was ordained schismatically:

"Now, My child, you will understand My messages of a short time ago, and you have learned with difficulty--I should say, My child, the hard way--that there can truly be no instant priests. This merger that he made was not of God. It has been allowed by the Eternal Father in order to set some people straight, My child. There are others who will follow in his path, and they will bring much sorrow to Heaven.
“It is a lesson that he has learned; but now he must act upon it and go to a confessor--a good, a true Roman Catholic priest. He must go to a confessor, a Roman Catholic priest, My child. In the mercy extended by the Eternal Father, you will tell him again: He must go to a Roman Catholic priest and make a full confession.” (Our Lady, October 6, 1976)

Mr. Donovan’s objections did not even touch on the distinction between ordinations in union with Rome, and those that were not. Our Lady’s use of the word “legally” includes this very important point. One of the remarkable characteristics of the Bayside message is its ability to pack such theological and moral meaning into such concise and easy to understand language.

(2) bishops and the ordination of priests

The quote causing concern to Mr. Donovan was the following: "Pastors, no hands, other than those consecrated, by legally ordained priests, shall give the Host to others.” (Jesus, August 21, 1975) The vigil audio tape of the August 21, 1975 message has a clear pause after the word “consecrated”. As the quote above reads (which faithfully represents the original message), it is clear that Our Lady is not saying that priests are ordained by other priests (as Mr. Donovan contended), but rather that no hands other than the hands of “legally ordained priests, shall give the Host to others.” (click here to read the August 21, 1975 message). The whole point of the sentence is about the consecrated hands of a priest. The sentence has nothing to do with who ordains priests. Also, nowhere has Our Lady of the Roses ever stated in Her message that priests are not ordained by bishops. This is not true. In fact, Our Lady has emphasized the necessity to following all the proper steps given by the Church for ordination:

"You must keep in your hearts the knowledge of the true priesthood of My Son. The steps for obtaining Holy Orders must be followed. They have been developed through heavenly guidance for reason.” (Our Lady, September 13, 1978)

Furthermore, the powers of the bishops are well described throughout Our Lady of the Roses message: their authority over seminaries (October 2, 1976; May 30, 1978; July 25, 1977), their authority over the laity (November 1, 1973), their power to excommunicate (August 21, 1974), the necessity of bishops to remain united with the Pope (October 6, 1979 and September 27, 1986), and warns of those groups who have alienated themselves from their hierarchy (September 14, 1985).

We will answer other objections of Mr. Donovan in future installments.

[1] As an aside, it should be noted that Our Lady’s message also states that Heaven wants the traditional Mass to return (July 1, 1985), and that the removal of the Latin language in the Mass was a “defilement”: "It was the will of the Eternal Father that one universal language be used along with, in comparison with, together with the language of the land. This universal language, Latin, befit and was chosen by the Eternal Father as a universal language for the universal Church, the Roman Catholic Church under the leadership of Pope Paul VI, the successor of Peter.... Do not leave My Son's Church though, My children, because they have taken this language from among you. You must wait and persevere and weep with My Son for this defilement by man." (Our Lady, April 10, 1976)

Related Articles…

Replies to Mr. Donovan, part 1

Replies to Mr. Donovan, part 3

Fr. Robert Skurla on Our Lady of the Roses apparitions

Fr. Guillermo Flores y Flores on Our Lady of the Roses apparitions

Fr. Bernard Nunes, O.C.D. on Our Lady of the Roses apparitions

Doctors who said "miracle"

Letter of Veronica to Sister Kathleen

"No investigation" in Veronica's own words

Letter of Dr. O'Keefe regarding Veronica

Click here to email this page to a friend.

There are 4 Things You Must Have to Survive the End Times:

1.) The Douay-Rheims Holy Bible...

"I ask that all who hear My voice will take their Bibles, and if they do not have one, search, but find the right Bible, those printed not after 1965, My children." - Jesus, October 5, 1985
     "You must all obtain a copy of the Book of life and love, the Bible. Do not accept the new mods. Try to find in your bookstores the old Bibles, My children, for many are being changed to suit the carnal nature of man. I repeat, sin has become a way of life." - Our Lady, October 6, 1992
    "I must ask you all to read but a few short chapters a day now, the Book of life and love, your Bible. Knowledge must be gained for all the disciples of My Son, for you will be attacked by scientific minds. But do not be concerned what you will say to them when accosted, for the words will be given to you by the Spirit." - Our Lady, April 10, 1976
    The Douay-Rheims Bible was published in 1899. It is the official Bible of the Roman Catholic Church. Almost all other Bibles have been rewritten by Satan.   See: https://www.tldm.org/directives/d33.htm , https://www.tldm.org/directives/d415.htm and https://www.tldm.org/directives/d182.htm   If you don't have a Douay-Rheims Bible order it now! (Order Form) Yours and your loved ones salvation could depend on it.
    Read the Bible cover to cover. If you read 4 chapters a day, you will complete the whole Bible in 334 days. I have read the Bible 2 times and working on the third time. A 75 year old Baptism gentleman told me that he and his wife have read the Bible nine times. Wow!

2.) The Complete Virgin Mary’s Bayside Prophesies in 6 Paperback Books..

The Virgin Mary brings directions from God, the Father in Heaven on how to survive the end times. God, the Father, through the Virgin Mary, tells what is coming, how to prepare for it, how to survive it, and how to even stop it. These six volumes along with the Bible are most important to save yourself and your loved ones. Order it now. Tomorrow may be to late. These 6 pocket size paperback books costs $33.00. (Order Form)

3.) Heaven's Home Protection Packet...

Heaven’s Home Protection Packet...
Our Lord stated we must have crucifixes upon the outside of all of our outside doors. In the "Heaven’s Home Protection Packet" there are instructions, four crucifixes, a tube of special cement for wooden or metal crucifixes. Wooden crucifixes adhere better to the doors when the aluminum strap is removed from the back. Put a light coat of cement on the back of the crucifix and then press it to the outside of the door. If you have any problems, you can call us at 616-698-6448 for assistance. This Heaven’s Home Protection Packet is available for a donation of $10.00 plus $4.00 shipping and handling. Send $14.00 to TLD Ministries, P.O. Box 40, Lowell, MI 49331. Item # P15 (Order Form)

Crucifix on front and back door... The only real protection against terrorists...
Jesus - "Pray and wear your sacramentals. And, also, My children, I ask you again to place a crucifix upon your door. Both front and back doors must have a crucifix. I say this to you because there will be carnage within your areas, and this will pass you by if you keep your crucifix upon your doors." (6-30-84) (Testimonies of lives and homes saved by the crucifixes.) https://www.tldm.org/news/crucifix.htm (Order Form)

4.) Heaven's Personal Protection Packet...

Heaven’s Personal Protection Packet . . .
Our Lady tells us to be protected from all evil, we must wear the following sacramentals around our necks: a Rosary, a crucifix, the St. Benedict medal, Our Lady of the Roses medal, the Miraculous Medal, and the scapular. We have all of these sacramentals in a packet we call "Heaven's Personal Protection Packet." This packet is available for a donation of $7.00 plus $3.00 shipping and handling. Send $10.00 to TLD Ministries, P.O. Box 40, Lowell, MI 49331. Item # P5 (Order Form)

    Our Lady of the Roses, Mary Help of Mothers promises to help protect our children. On September 13, 1977, She said, "He has an army of ogres wandering now throughout your country and all of the countries of the world. They are in possession of great power; so wear your sacramentals, and protect your children and your households. Learn the use every day of holy water throughout your household. Insist even with obstructions, insist that your children always wear a sacramental. One day they will understand that they will repel the demons."
    On February 1, 1974, Our Lady said, "My children, know the value of these sacramentals. Guard your children well. You must awaken to the knowledge that you will not be protected without the sacramentals. Guard your children's souls. They must be surrounded with an aura of purity. Remove them if necessary from the sources of contamination, be it your schools or even false pastors."
    This Heaven’s Personal Protection Packet is available for a donation of $7.00 plus $3.00 shipping and handling. Send $10.00 to TLD Ministries, P.O. Box 40, Lowell, MI 49331. You may use your MasterCard, VISA, or American Express and call 1-616-698-6448. Item # P5 (Order Form)

Incredible Bayside Prophecies on the United States and Canada book . . .

We have researched the Bayside Prophecies on the United States and Canada and put these outstanding prophecies in a 360 page pocket size paperback book. Veronica said it was very good. It tells what is going to happen here and how to prepare for it. Every North American must read this book! Item #B2 Cost $5.00 (Order Form)

Your names have been written in Heaven… "It is not by accident that you are called by My Mother, for your names have been written in Heaven.... But with this great grace you have great responsibility to send this Message from Heaven throughout the world, for if you are able to recover just one more for Heaven, an additional star shall be placed in your crown." - Jesus, August 5, 1975

My gift to help spread Our Lady of the Roses' messages to the world.

Comments

We encourage everyone to print or email copies of this web page to all the Bishops and all the clergy. Also, email or send this web page to the news media and as many people as possible.

The electronic form of this document is copyrighted.
Quotations are permissible as long as this web site is acknowledged with a hyperlink to: https://www.tldm.org
Copyright © These Last Days Ministries, Inc. 1996 - 2023 All rights reserved.
P.O. Box 40 616-698-6448
Lowell, MI 49331-0040
Revised: November 15, 2023