Replies to Colin Donovan

Recently, Colin Donovan wrote an article for the ewtn.org website regarding Our Lady of the Roses apparitions, in addition to giving several answers in the “experts forum” that contradict Church tradition and Our Lady of the Roses message. We immediately noticed that Mr. Donovan had committed the same mistake as the Diocese of Brooklyn did in 1975 when, in the diocese's official statement, Veronica’s last name was misspelled (though the Brooklyn Diocese claims to have made a “thorough investigation”). We pray that those who have been misled by Mr. Donovan’s article against Our Lady of the Roses will prayerfully and studiously consider the replies we make to Mr. Donovan’s objections.

“Priests are correctly said to be validly ordained. Further, priests are ordained by bishops, not other priests.” - Mr. Donovan

Simplicity is one of the many hallmarks of Our Lady of the Roses message. In Our Lady’s own words, "I will now explain to you in simple language that you may understand” (November 25, 1978). She speaks to all. As such, the message is simply worded. But in spite of the simplicity of the message, Our Lady’s words are unbelievably precise. It takes a bit of research at times to uncover what Our Lady is actually saying, and why She is right.

We will answer Mr. Donovan’s two allegations: (1) that the phrase “legally ordained” used by Our Lady of the Roses is in error, and (2) that Our Lady’s of the Roses message states that priests are not ordained by bishops.

As mentioned above, Our Lady of the Roses message is directed to all, to young and old, the learned and unlearned. Our Lady is speaking not only to a minority of theologians, but to the whole world. Therefore, Our Lady for the most part uses simple language.

Mr. Donovan’s contends that Our Lady of the Roses message errs by not using the phrase “validly ordained,” suggesting that without using the word “valid,” the message shows itself to be false. Our Lady of the Roses message, however, uses the word “valid” many times, but in reference to the validity of the Novus Ordo Mass, the New Mass, the validity of which some call into question. The message states, "Do not lose faith in My Mass. It is valid. Man may distort, but it is valid, I say! When a legally ordained priest of the Roman Catholic Church conducts this Mass, it is valid, I say!" (Jesus, December 7, 1976)[1]

Mr. Donovan’s contention that Our Lady of the Roses is ignorant of the term “valid” is therefore false.

We now need to ask: why did Our Lady use the phrase “legally ordained” instead of “validly ordained”? Bearing in mind the target audience of Our Lady (everyone), we believe this question has a two-part answer: (a) “legally ordained” is commonly understood by most people, even those without theological training, and (b) "validly ordained" is not a sufficiently explanatory phrase; it is incomplete. For a precise phrase, you would also need to include the word "licitly" to read “validly and licitly ordained”, that is, according to Church law (interestingly enough, a synonym for “legally” is the word “licitly”). Otherwise, you have not made a distinction between an ordination conferred in union with the Church, and one performed schismatically. The word "licitly" would go over the heads of many Catholics, as many do not have a theological background to understand this term. Our Lady solves this problem by using the phrase "legally ordained", which is easily understood by all.

Regarding priestly ordination, Our Lady uses the phrase “legally ordained” to get double service out of the single word “legally” to mean “validly and licitly” ordained. The additional concept Our Lady is bringing into the picture by using the word “legally” is union with the Church, union with Rome. The phrase “legally ordained”, as a warning against schismatic ordination, is brought out in the October 6, 1980 message:

"Beware of those who start a new church among you. A Roman Catholic Church must have a legally ordained Roman Catholic Bishop, and the Old Catholic Church is not with Rome. It is a schismatic organization, and all who join these interlopers shall gain immediate excommunication by Heaven and through the legal hierarchy of Rome. The Old Catholic Church is schismatic, and is not, and shall not use the name Roman Catholic Church.” (Jesus, October 6, 1980).

Our Lady of the Roses message also touches upon ordinations that are not legal, that are not in union with the Church. The October 6, 1976 message mentions one incident, regarding a man who was ordained schismatically:

"Now, My child, you will understand My messages of a short time ago, and you have learned with difficulty--I should say, My child, the hard way--that there can truly be no instant priests. This merger that he made was not of God. It has been allowed by the Eternal Father in order to set some people straight, My child. There are others who will follow in his path, and they will bring much sorrow to Heaven.
“It is a lesson that he has learned; but now he must act upon it and go to a confessor--a good, a true Roman Catholic priest. He must go to a confessor, a Roman Catholic priest, My child. In the mercy extended by the Eternal Father, you will tell him again: He must go to a Roman Catholic priest and make a full confession.” (Our Lady, October 6, 1976)

Mr. Donovan’s objections did not even touch on the distinction between ordinations in union with Rome, and those that were not. Our Lady’s use of the word “legally” includes this very important point. One of the remarkable characteristics of the Bayside message is its ability to pack such theological and moral meaning into such concise and easy to understand language.

The quote causing concern to Mr. Donovan was the following: "Pastors, no hands, other than those consecrated, by legally ordained priests, shall give the Host to others.” (Jesus, August 21, 1975) The vigil audio tape of the August 21, 1975 message has a clear pause after the word “consecrated”. As the quote above reads (which faithfully represents the original message), it is clear that Our Lady is not saying that priests are ordained by other priests (as Mr. Donovan contended), but rather that no hands other than the hands of “legally ordained priests, shall give the Host to others.” (click here to read the August 21, 1975 message). The whole point of the sentence is about the consecrated hands of a priest. The sentence has nothing to do with who ordains priests. Also, nowhere has Our Lady of the Roses ever stated in Her message that priests are not ordained by bishops. This is not true. In fact, Our Lady has emphasized the necessity to following all the proper steps given by the Church for ordination:

"You must keep in your hearts the knowledge of the true priesthood of My Son. The steps for obtaining Holy Orders must be followed. They have been developed through heavenly guidance for reason.” (Our Lady, September 13, 1978)

Furthermore, the powers of the bishops are well described throughout Our Lady of the Roses message: their authority over seminaries (October 2, 1976; May 30, 1978; July 25, 1977), their authority over the laity (November 1, 1973), their power to excommunicate (August 21, 1974), the necessity of bishops to remain united with the Pope (October 6, 1979 and September 27, 1986), and warns of those groups who have alienated themselves from their hierarchy (September 14, 1985).

We encourage everyone to print or email copies of this web page to all the Bishops and all the clergy. Also, send this page to as many people as possible.

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Revised: December 19, 2005

[1] As an aside, it should be noted that Our Lady’s message also states that Heaven wants the traditional Mass to return (July 1, 1985), and that the removal of the Latin language in the Mass was a “defilement”: "It was the will of the Eternal Father that one universal language be used along with, in comparison with, together with the language of the land. This universal language, Latin, befit and was chosen by the Eternal Father as a universal language for the universal Church, the Roman Catholic Church under the leadership of Pope Paul VI, the successor of Peter.... Do not leave My Son's Church though, My children, because they have taken this language from among you. You must wait and persevere and weep with My Son for this defilement by man." (Our Lady, April 10, 1976)