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February 13, 1977 Holy Hour:

"The truth about the so-called investigation", in Veronica Lueken's own words...

Veronica - For some time now, I have been receiving, and many others, circulars, copies of letters that are being given through the bishop, to all of their parishioners, read from the pulpit, and these circulars, letters are, they claim are coming directly from the chancery, the Brooklyn diocese chancery.

Now in these letters, in particular, the word "spurious" is being used. Now, in God's plan, none of us have to openly defend our actions when we are being directed by Our Lady and Jesus. However, we are coming now into the "home stretch", in my human words, I say the "home stretch", because the evil has accelerated and many punishments are going to be given to mankind. It is the merciful heart of the Father in His plan, to bring mankind back to Him.

Now, I believe in the past seven years, only once did I place upon tape for all to hear, the truth about the so-called investigation, made allegedly by the Brooklyn diocese. I would like people to know the truth, as only I can give you the truth, and I feel I have a responsibility to give you this truth, because I am the one who is being used as the example before others. On one hand, I am an example being used by Our Lady and Jesus as a voice-box, and to those who cannot believe, or will not believe, or are in darkness of spirit, will not accept the Message from Heaven, and they will use all measures, whether it be lies, or ostracizing someone, passing on an untruth or fallacy, it seems that Our Lady is speaking from the wiseness of Her heart, and knowledge from God, that for those who believe, no explanation is necessary, and for those who do not believe the message, there will be no explanation and they will cite it, and they will use all means.

Now I feel in my heart, when lies are promoted against a person, there is only one individual who is guiding those who use these lies to try to destroy another, and that is satan. Now in my heart I can only say, and I believe, though this is a Sunday Holy Hour and not the vigils of Our Lady, I am sitting in the area--I only sit, because I'm not well today, I would prefer to kneel. However, as Our Lady gives me this choice to sit in order to clarify some subjects that are harming souls because they're being forced to turn away from Her message and Her warnings.

Now if Our Lady does state that if Her bishop and pastors would spend as much time as they are trying to stop Her message, if they would spend as much time and effort, put as much effort into fighting the evils that are prevalent now in the hearts of man, in reference to the abuse of drugs, all of the immorality that is flooding our country, the breaking of the commandments of God, pornography destroying the minds and souls of the youth, and especially and above all, the lack of faith in the young, and the turning away from God's Church. All of this has to be stressed in order to keep Jesus' Church open, and to keep the sheep from leaving, because when they leave the Eucharist, they turn from God and they will be lost!

Now in reference to the so-called investigation made from, about the "alleged" as they say, apparitions, and I do say, not in defense but in truth, they use the word "alleged", but I say "the truth" being spoken by God through just an ordinary person and individual, myself, and many others throughout the world.  

NO FORMAL INVESTIGATION
Now, there was no formal investigation in reference to Our Lady's work in Bayside. For many years, I say many, because Our Lady first started Her work with me, through me, in 1968 with St. Theresa. During that time, I approached many priests, trying to find a spiritual director, but it was not in the will of God, and later of course, I found out through Jesus that, He said, His very words, were "you will do better by yourself, My child. I will direct you, you will go further."[1] I understand now why He said that. Experience has taught me that if I had been under a spiritual director,

Our Lady's message would have been silenced a long time ago. However, only Heaven knows the count of souls that we have been able to gather for Jesus in the time of the persecution. It's a minor persecution we undergo in comparison to Jesus' trials and His cross. However, I want you to know the facts about the so-called investigation. I don't do this to try to cast any slight upon the individuals concerned, but the facts must be given. Not in defense of myself, because I do not have to defend myself, or my actions for Our Lady. I am only in obedience to Jesus and Our Lady.

NOT ONE SINGLE INDIVIDUAL
Now, no investigation from the years 1968 through 19--up to 1975, not one single individual ever called me, either by telephone, or written by letter, to come into them and speak personally with them about what was going on, though we conducted the vigils as requested by Our Lady and Jesus from 1970 right through, and the Holy Hours, the past approximately 3-4 years. Now, the so-called, what they may consider in the chancery, a "form" of investigation, by they say, "the local clergy". Well, this "local clergy", I assure you, is only, if I can believe the words, of Msgr. King to me upon the telephone, when I asked him, in all of this rumpus, "Please tell me, I think I'm entitled to know. Who are the people who investigated me?" And he sort of got a little confused, but he did say, "Well, two Monsignors and a seminarian." And I thought to myself, "I understand." Msgr. Mc Donald, the pastor of St. Robert's, Msgr. King, who looked upon a Sunday Holy Hour I believe, there were alleged reports of his being out of habit in, I believe it was a leather jacket, observing what was going on at a Sunday Holy Hour, but not speaking with me, or anyone in the group, he just eyed and made some type of observation. And the seminarian--and I believe, and I have to admit something that's not quite legal, but in my own direction from God, I taped that telephone conversation with Msgr. King, and also he stated that the seminarian read the message, and this is the so-called "judgment". It appears that the seminarian and--I know Msgr. Mc Donald, I have more to say about--he is a good soul, and for all the others involved are good souls, but misdirected or following in obedience from the leader. But the seminarian obviously did not like or agree with the message.
 

ARTICLE IN THE BROOKLYN TABLET
Alright, now as time went on, the letters from the chancery started to go out. Now a Mr. Greene, in
The Brooklyn Tablet, diocesan newspaper, did quite a write-up against us, in the most obvious place, the editorial sheet, it took up almost the whole page. In it, we were accused of being "spurious" because there were very expensive looking booklets coming out and colored brochures of the, what he called, "alleged" miraculous photographs. Well, through the grace of God, we weren't tormented by that too long, because Luis Montenola [spelling?] of the island of Guam in the Philippines, the man who solely paid for the printing of that booklet, and also the colored brochure, got in touch with Msgr. King, and informed him of his place in paying for these booklets. You see, in Msgr. King's . . . [word unclear] letter, it stated "it would lead any individual to believe that something spurious or something odd is going on," he says who's paying for these expensive publications? Well, this, Luis Montenola was a man of means, who believed in the message of Our Lady, and he did not know me personally, he came from San Damiano--a visit to San Damiano in Italy, and was brought by a man named Ted Zuba to visit me and ask if he could print Our Lady's message, and I naturally was very happy that Our Lady was sending others to help, as I did not have the means to promote the message the way he could, with his publications.

Now, when Msgr. King received the truth about these publications, he made what you call a retraction, to Mr. Greene, to Mr. Greene who published that big article against us, but sad to say this little retraction only took up a few lines and was placed in The Tablet in a place where no one would ever see it, it was way down in the corner in the middle, I believe, of the paper--somewhere like that--and nobody would ever see it. So you see, satan wasn't going to let anything good enter upon this if he could help it.

Now, during this time, letters were going back and forth, and I was in the middle of it, praying to Our Lady and Jesus, to tell me what should I do? Well, I had to stand my ground and wait, and see what would happen. Still, no one called me in, until Msgr. Powell came with . . . [tape break] one night, and we received tremendous pictures of, miraculous pictures, that appear out of nowhere from God, about this . . . [tape break]. And then during that time, someone shouted over a loud speaker . . . [tape break] Our Lady speaks of and he would understand what I'm talking about. Well, as we left, he never said a word! about anything . . . [words unclear]. As we left, I said to him, "You know Father, we mean well, though perhaps you don't understand what I'm talking about." Well, he placed his hand around my shoulder, and I thought, well, maybe God is working here, to give this soul, this individual the knowledge of what we're doing, and what God is trying to do here. And we walked outside, but then the next day, I was almost like, I felt like Jesus probably did, the kiss of Judas, because the next day the letters were being written against me, using my name, address, and everything from the pulpit, and put in The Robertonian, the church news bulletin.  

VERONICA VISITS MSGR. KING
Alright, now that went by. And then, as time went on we were going to be summoned to court, and I felt this was a horror. So I called, first I called Fr. Mc Donald on the telephone, and that's the first time I really, we ever even spoke to each other about this, and he said I would have to speak to Msgr. King. Well, I went--instead of speaking, my husband and I decided to go and see Msgr. King--well, we didn't have an appointment, but we went on there on a Friday. Well, the day before though, I got the fright of my life, and I must tell in all honesty, because perhaps God has His plan that I speak now.

Before we go anywhere, we always ask Our Lady in direction, with positive proof through a photograph--this would be difficult for most to understand, but they are true, the photographs. I know many people are in their anxiety and their desire to receive one of these miraculous photographs from Heaven, uh, they will see things that are not there. That could be true, but we have many thousands of obvious photographs that are not just something you have to imagine into it, they are definitely so obvious that you would have to be a fool not to recognize the manifestation.

 Well, we took a picture, and I said to Our Lady, "What are we going to say when we're going to see Msgr. King?" And Our Lady said, "Have pity on them, My child, because you are going to face the red serpent." And, well, I was a little frightened, but I let it go by, and we went down. We saw Msgr. King, and he was very nice, he was a very nice man, and in one way--later on, I talked to him and tried to tell him what was going on, and I showed him some of the miraculous photographs but, somewhere I felt in my heart, there was like a glass between us, that he couldn't look through, and I couldn't go through. And I knew it was obedience, he had his orders, and he had no other choice, his hands were tied, I don't--he could listen, but he couldn't even, uh, he could listen and not listen, if you know what I mean.

"WE CAN END ALL THIS!"
Well alright, that passed over and then, uh, they called in the church, St. Robert's pastor, called for a meeting, but the meeting was in the church hall. Our Lady said I couldn't go, and then I realized why. I did want to go, but Our Lady told me not to go and I would find out way.

At that meeting, we have a witness, Mrs. Caroline Stevens. She was there as witness and others too, and I believe a whole taping was made of this meeting; it was done secretly but it was made!  And right at that meeting, one of the parishioners of St. Robert's jumped up and said, I can't quote her exact words, but the words that are important, she stated, "We can end all this! Two men came to my house and said they would be willing to shoot Veronica." I guess for a price, is what she meant, but actually this was getting terrible. My heart froze in a way when I heard that, not for fear of my life, but to think how evil satan is, and how evil the people can become!

All in reference to people praying the Rosary on church property! But now they were going to shoot me, two men were so infuriated, we disturbed their peace. Don't they realize that God has another plan? Don't they realize that unless they listen to Our Lady's message, Jesus' message and act upon it, they won't have their beautifully manicured lawns! They won't have their homes! They don't want the people to pray there, it's a disturbance, are we thorns in their conscience? We were accused--I say "we", because I feel a great responsibility for what those who follow did. I understand they tormented the people, I say they tormented their consciences when they sent their children back to dress properly, in the presence of Jesus and Our Lady. And I say in all truth, that I have seen children dressed in a manner so abominable in the eyes of God, walking on a Sunday afternoon--certainly the weather was hot, but to expose their navel, and to bring lust into the hearts of the young men, because the women and girls no longer have any self-respect or modesty! So those who don't speak up and try to bring to these children, and even their errant parents the necessity of bringing knowledge of truth and decency to their children, by good example and discipline. Someone has to do it!

And God and Our Lady have chosen individuals to do it, because the parents have become lax, the pastors have become lax! Do the pastors get up now, Our Lady said, and try to condemn these bad situations? No! They go along like ducks on water! They hope it flows away so they don't have to be the ones to have the guts and the backbone to stand up and say what's wrong! And what do they gain? Are they afraid of losing the moneys in their coffers, as Our Lady says? And what do they gain? By their own examples they no longer get the respect that they command, and that they demand. But do they demand it, no! By their example they are turning to the world and no longer bringing the word of God to the people.

Alright, now in reference--I go back to the police station. Our Lady told me not to go to the meeting at the police station, because of guns. There was a miraculous photograph taken, I wouldn't have even got into the police station, Our Lady said. And they I heard later on that when the good people from the Shrine vigils arrived, they were treated like criminals. Everyone of them had a policeman--for some reason or other, I don't know what kind of an impression the church gave, I say the church, the peoples of the church, and the, the local, uh, neighbors around the parishioners gave, that the police met them by standing a guard with a gun behind every Vigilite, as they called them, as they sat in the chair! Happily, Our Lady told me this and I was not permitted to go. Alright, you must understand, I only listen to Our Lady, I cannot listen to man, because man seeks to destroy the truth, and if he could, any who is giving the truth! A person who is giving the truth now is going to be subject to be scorned and mocked, and be called a fanatic and crazy! But what do we care, if you are with Our Lady and Jesus, it's only important that you save souls for Them, it's only important that you save your family's soul and your own soul! Life is not eternal. Just remember, every individual that is persecuting the good has to one day stand in judgment before Jesus.

"NOT EVEN ONE INDIVIDUAL"
Now, in reference again to these letters going out, uh--I repeat, I did meet with them, this was only, this was in 1975 though. Nothing, not even one individual came to me, wrote to me, called me or asked me to come in and speak with them! Until April of 1975 when we were planning to go to court, and I myself took the initiative to contact these people in an effort to not bring the scandal to the Church because I found it absolutely ridiculous to have to go in the church and fight with the church, so to speak, in my own human words--Our Lady can say it much nicer, but I don't know how else to put it but to have a fight openly in the church with the newspapers, about what? Praying the Rosary on church grounds?  And then I asked Msgr. King, "What do you mean that the church is private property?" I said, "Has the church become a business? We can't pray there?"

And they say we invaded their private property when we went into the church. All of the trouble and the persecution took place, ironically, around Passion Week, Jesus' Passion Week. I know now that Jesus had a plan for letting us go through all that during Passion Week, because there was even no respect by the clergy for Passion Week. And it's not just a memory, and they're making even Passion Week a revery and sort of, just a memorial when actually, as in the Eucharist, they're trying to defile the Eucharist too and try to say it's a memorial and a meal, just like everything else, including the supernatural, cast that aside as being a myth! If you can cast all that aside then you cast aside God, and that's what the enemies of the Church, of Jesus' Church, and the enemies of God are trying to do. And they're succeeded very well so far! But only because God allows them their time. It's in this manner that He's going to show up the real followers of God, and those lukewarm and those shirkers that stand back and expect somebody else to, to speak for them.

Every man speaks for himself, not another! And no one shall be saved who follows in blind obedience when, and even, like they try to say that we're speaking against Pope Paul. Oh, that's another ruse of satan to try to put out. Why don't they read the message and find the truth! Our Lady has us not speaking against Pope Paul, but to protect the papacy and protect Pope Paul! And there is an impostor, an impersonator in Rome! And he is being used in personal appearances, because this is the enemy's plan to send out to the world a lot of fallacy and lies! And they are writing in the newspapers, Our Lady said, exactly what the want the people to know, and even Pope Paul cries tears, Our Lady says, of horror and tears of pity and tears of sorrow, because his very own are crucifying Jesus in His Church! His very own bishops and cardinals are turning against Him and not even obeying their Pope! So I say this:  that not only is satan attacking the good people, the good sheep, but there are many goats in Rome, Our Lady says, and it's the clergy themselves that have fallen down on the job, Our Lady said, and are allowing the sheep to scatter and to fall!

"WAIT AND SEE!"
Now this doesn't mean that we're pointing our finger and saying, "you're the one!" We don't have to name names, because every man has the truth in his heart. God will judge, the Eternal Father is always the final Judge. We don't come, we don't spread Our Lady's word to pass judgment to anyone, because the judgments that I have been allowed to see are far worse than any words that could be spoken upon earth! You'll find out soon enough! And all those who speak to try to stop Our Lady's message from going throughout the world, I can only say to you in my human way, wait and see! Because time will bear out what Our Lady has said, as it already has. Our Lady in April of 1971 said that there would be great floods in this country, and in 1972 there were! Our Lady told me to write to Bishop Mugavero and told him that many people are going to die, stop this by making a firm commitment to clean out your seminaries! And the earthquake struck the next day, the very day he received my letter, in Guatemala the earthquake struck. But no! that doesn't help, because their hearts are hardened and their ears are become deaf, and their sight, the sight--not the human sight, but the sight that God gives you from your spirit, your heart, the inborn spirit that every man receives when he is baptized! I say that much will transpire, as Our Lady said, and the time will bear out the validity of Her message. There is one purpose we have, to protect Pope Paul, to uphold the papacy, and to try to keep patching the cracks that Our Lady said, that many of Jesus' own are putting in His Church. The gates of hell shall never prevail against Jesus' Church. Time will bear out all. But, as in the past, man has not learned his lesson. From history our country, the United States of America, is now in the same position as in the time of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Nineveh, and every other nation that gave itself over to sin was destroyed. And this time it shall be by fire. 

"MY OBEDIENCE IS TO MY GOD"
Now, I try to cover everything in relation to the so-called, uh, letters of obedience going out throughout the country to your bishop. Yes, I do believe in obedience, but what is obedience? My obedience is to my God. The papacy, yes I am obedient to Pope Paul because I know that Pope Paul is a prisoner in his own house! He's a human being, understand, he's a human being like you and I. He can make errors, but these errors, he believed from his heart because he may have in the beginning been a little weak and misled by his own. You see he's a good man, Pope Paul is a good man. He tries to make everyone happy; he tries to understand his cardinals and his bishops; he does not want to speak out against them, Our Lady said, because it's a terrible thing to have to speak out against your own. But now is the time when he is forced, and he must now remove by excommunication the enemies of God who are there to destroy the Church! And we must pray for Pope Paul, because he knows in his heart, that I am sure he will accept the sacrifice, he knows that if he becomes too rough with them, and tough, they'll see that he's put out of the way too, Our Lady said! You see, in our country and the world, life has no value anymore.

They're slaughtering the babies in abortions; they're slaughtering the old people; they're slaughtering those who are a burden to society, seeking to make a utopia for man, seeking to make a socialistic state of man, where everything is love and brotherhood! But God's not included! Man is the god now, they say! And God has another way of combating that! A very harsh way, and even some good must suffer in the Chastisement. But God is at the helm, but the bark of Peter is floundering. God has it all under control, but we as human beings know that unless--I say as human beings because I speak of us, and I hopefully hope that all have this same feeling, that we are creations of God, and we follow the plan of God upon earth, and we're here for only one reason, to make our way back to God's Kingdom. I say too, that what I say in truth is not to place the finger of guilt upon anyone, because this is a massive conspiracy. One individual cannot be blamed, one individual is not responsible for the bad situation now among the churches, uh, but I will say this: it takes every individual to stand up now and be counted. I believe in my heart it is the laity who will save Jesus' Church from any further decline.

I don't believe you will hear much from the bishops because they will follow out of fright, or being misled, or fear--mostly fear, I think--they will follow their leader. But I say, in my own heart, and I feel this is directly from Jesus, though this is not a vigil night, I say this: who do you owe your allegiance to first, God or man? You cannot love both at the same time with the same degree, you'll either hate one really, . . . [words unclear] hate one and love the other. And I'll tell you now, there is a terrible hatred of even God in His rules and His way now, within the world! And it's the Church peoples, the bishops, the cardinals, the laity, are they going to follow the rest of the masses to destruction? Are they going to reject Jesus any longer? I don't know exactly what's going to happen except that I know that the time is growing short. I know that my time is growing short, but Our Lady's word is going throughout the world, Her direction and Jesus'.

MSGR. KING:  "SHE'S A GOOD DEVOUT PERSON"
One more thing, I know this is becoming very lengthy, which I didn't plan, but you see when Jesus has, uses me, He doesn't want a "yes" or "no" at this time, He wants an explanation, it's necessary, to clarify things. You have to have facts and proof. I repeat, another fact: I'm not--I have to put myself on an impersonal plane, when I speak now, I'm not speaking in defence of myself. I have to give you a fact, that when you use the word "spurious", let us work the way they have been doing in the papers coming from the diocese of Brooklyn, the bishop's office.

Now on television, Msgr. King, after his meeting with me--it's strange, you know. Perhaps if someone had called us in sooner before all this business in the court that took place, things would have been different. But I'm sure that when we went to see Msgr. King, in his heart there was a little change, I believe. Because you know, no one can really judge an individual unless they speak with them personally, and see the personality and the character, and the impression that they receive by meeting with this person. You can't judge another on hearsay, or what someone else said, because most times people, their opinions are colored by their own personal emotions and feelings and ideas. But, uh, Msgr. King did get on the television later on sometime, Channel 11 news I believe it was, and he did state that he had met with us, and you know, I'm a little embarrassed to say it, it sounds like pride, but I'm not saying it pride fully, believe me, he did state that I have met with Mrs. Lueken, and I find she is a devout woman of good character.[2] Well bless him, I was very happy. In fact, I think that the first time I heard the tape, I sat down and had a good cry, I was so, so I don't know how to put it, I don't want to give myself to consolation in saying that I was happy but, it was like a relief in one way, because I knew, I knew in my heart that Msgr. King was only following orders, and everyone's following orders.

Then, so, I laugh because also on the television--we have all of these tapes I speak of, and we do have tapes of the telephone conversations too. But he also said that, you know, "as for Mrs. Lueken, she may be a saint 300 years from now, but right now she's going to Cunningham Park!"  In other words, he was referring to--see, he had asked us, uh, by telephone, when we started the court procedure, to go to the park, take the people to the park, that we should come here just myself down, receive Our Lady's message and run up to the park with it. Well that was a little ridiculous, you must understand, that these gatherings of people were commanded by God the Father, through Our Lady as an emissary from Heaven, that we gather there. Not to disturb the populace, but to do penance and atonement at this time, and believe me in the future, one day you will understand why we were there, how our prayers and the sacrifices and the example, I know you thought we were crazy wearing the long dresses.

That was God's plan to try to emphasis the need for modesty. And also to set yourself as an individual among the "blue ladies", the ladies who are trying to follow Our Lady's direction. That's why we wear the long dresses, it's like atonement. Not only that, we also wear the long dresses, Our Lady said, to tell you, because the nuns are no longer wearing the long habits, and Our Lady does want them, and St. Theresa does want them to wear their long habits. So we have to try to do atonement, and make ourselves victims to the merciful heart of the Father in atonement for what the others are not doing. Somebody has to be the sacrifice; somebody has to give of themselves because what greater love could you have for your brothers, than to sacrifice yourself for them, even though they don't even understand what you're doing. And that refers to Jesus being crucified too. Uh, that's why He said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." Because they didn't understand either, why He was, in their human nature, why He would die for them, because they hadn't received the light in their hearts to know, the meaning of suffering and sacrifice. And this also applies to all who are now doing Our Lady's work, they do know, the meaning of sacrifice, and they do know the meaning of being ostracized, and what it does. Because believe me, the Eternal Father said to Jesus and Our Lady to me, and to others, that no evil is ever triumphant.

The Eternal Father said, "I will turn all evil to good." So you see, you wonder how anyone could stand there, and be called a fool, and be called a fanatic, or a nut, or any other excuse for their actions that others who don't believe will use. Well, you can do that because you know you're doing it for God, and that's all that's important! You can't care for the opinion of mankind, because you've given yourself in full commitment to God. You can't offend God by trying to please some man, who gives you an order to do something that you know in your heart is hurting Jesus and Our Lady. Because if you love Them, can you hurt Them? You couldn't! And that's why we stand our ground, and we're directed by Jesus and Our Lady, knowing in our hearts that God has a plan for all. And we don't know, until the end exactly how many sheep have been brought back, but we do know this: we have now on record--I haven't been very well, physically, the last year or so, so I can't gather all the material, but I'm sure Jesus has a plan for having somebody else do it. But we have thousands upon thousands of, of testimonies of cures and conversions, many people have come back to holy Church, because of the examples of the good people who have taken up Our Lady's banner of "Faithful and True"--that's Jesus' banner, He's "Faithful and True."

READ THE APOCALYPSE
But also, know that you must, now, read the Apocalypse of St. John. If you did--it's not a dry book. If you can't understand it, go to a good priest, who has studied and is able to give you the meanings of the symbols and the symbolism. Jesus uses many symbols for reasons. And I'm sure, and I assure you, as a person of lowly means and education, I myself know that if you pray to the Holy Spirit, God will give you the insight! He will make you able to understand the writings of St. John if you really want to. It's like Jesus said, ask and you will be given what you ask, ask and you shall receive, seek and you will find! But you have to try, you have to want to, and that's the greatest thing that God could give to man, the wish to look for the Way. And Jesus says "I am the Way." So all we can say is we're going Jesus' way, and that's all we want now, in the balance of the times, . . . [words unclear]. Will we will succeed in getting the message from Heaven to all mankind? Can we stop anymore of the chastisements in the floods, and the terrible droughts, and the terrible drug plague upon the young, and oh, I could go down the list until it's too heartbreaking and much, much more is going to happen, far worse. And the greatest chastisement of all will be the Ball of Redemption, and if you don't believe what Our Lady is saying about the Ball of Redemption, you can read Joel[3] in the Old Testament! He talks about the burning fire with the tail! And didn't also the prophet Matthew and all of them speak of the end days in which fire will destroy the world? So can't anyone among you, who does not even have a small measure of belief in what Our Lady is saying, can't you use your own even human reasoning if you won't ask for God's grace to enlighten you, but your own common sense will tell you, if you do read the Bible, that we are living in those days that the prophets wrote of.

NOVEMBER 1, 1973 VIGIL
I understand that Ted [Cach] just told me, he was taping, and at the point where I was speaking of the arrival of Msgr. Powell, during one of the vigils, when he came with the church council, Msgr. Mc Donald, Msgr. Powell was the vicar of the vicariate of the Brooklyn diocese, he came to read one of the letters from the chancery, you know. And then I was called over the loudspeaker. A voice shouted out, "Veronica Lueken, come into the church and defend yourself." And like I said, I don't know if it came on the tape, I got a little frightened, 'cause they came with a group of men, they looked sort of like the Gestapo or something, or like, district attorney men, they were frightening, they didn't look very warm or kind, you know! And I didn't know what their plan was, whether they were going to grab me and put me in jail, or what. So I hesitated, in my own human way, and I asked Our Lady for a sign before I'm going to do anything! I'm not going to walk into the wolves' den if I can help it, unless Our Lady wants me to walk there! So I waited for the sign, and all of a sudden a man from New Jersey, uh, he screamed, the young fellow, he said, "Look what I've got!" Well, when I . . . [words unclear] asked Our Lady for a definite sign, my goodness, he had a Polaroid picture, and Polaroid you can't fake, because it's made right directly on the spot, there's no negative, you know, it comes out, you pull it out of the camera.

Well, there written on the, on the picture was the word "G-O", "GO!" That means "go in", because I'd asked Our Lady, "Should I go in there or not?" And the word "GO" came out from the hand of God, right onto the photograph, and then I went in. And I believe that we were able to get on tape, what transpired, when I went in to see Msgr. Powell. But I repeat myself again; that from 1968 to 1975, not one individual, either in the bishop's office, or St. Robert's church, called me in to speak with me personally about what was going on. All of the confusion and all of the bad feelings that may have evolved among the council, and Father Mc Donald and the others, started when the church, when Mr. William Caulfield, the poor soul, directed by satan, I have to say the truth--satan used him as an individual, as he will use others throughout the world, who have some reason, I don't know if the persons are out of grace for sure, because I see these individuals going to Holy Communion, yet I know in my heart many individuals are receiving the Eucharist and defiling It by not being in the true state of grace, or having the love of Christ in their heart. But I don't know, only God will judge why these individuals, or how they were used by satan.

VIGILITES SEEK REFUGE IN ST. ROBERT'S
But like I said, uh, up until 1975, there was no clamour, or anything like that, of discord, or being called in by Msgr. Mc Donald, or anyone in St. Robert's church, or the chancery, or the Bishop, nothing! Until the agents of hell gathered in force upon the grounds in 1975, and especially after we had gone into the church to say the Rosary, because the people were meeting us with rakes and shovels and we got the notion they were going to clobber us on the head out there! They were getting pretty violent after a while. So I, I prayed to Our Lady, and I knew in my heart, that if this was God's church, the only safe place we could go without being clobbered would be by the tabernacle, and that's why that Sunday afternoon, on April--I don't remember the exact date, April the 12th, or 13th, we went in and sat by Jesus, not knowing really, and that's sincerely, I tell you, we didn't know there was going to be a baptismal rite going on in the back of the church. And I was praying and being deaf, I understand Msgr. Mc Donald then got up on the altar, was waving his hand, from the altar, uh, . . . [tape break] he went up to the pulpit, and was waving his hands. And I didn't know at the time, I had my head bowed, I usually have a habit of really, when I'm speaking with Jesus, I close my eyes, and I'm kind of cut off from the world, so, and being deaf I couldn't hear from where I was sitting.

But I looked up, and I then, my heart froze, because he didn't look very happy, and he was waving his hands, and I thought, "here we are now, not finishing the 15 decades that Our Lady said has to be said." We come on Sunday to say the 15 decades of the Rosary for the priesthood and for Pope Paul. We've been doing that for years on Sunday. And here we were not finished, and all this. Then I looked up and I saw Msgr. Mc Donald. Then finally, uh, Mr. Hurst, one of our good workers, came down and told me what was going on up there. And we did stop, we did stop. We weren't trying to disrupt any, any service like the, they were having. We just didn't know they were going to do that. And we were getting to the point of feeling, "Well now, we didn't get clobbered now here, and here we can't even say the 15 decades." And we have a commitment to Our Lady to say 15 decades of the Rosary every Sunday for the clergy and for the protection of holy Church.


    [1]". . . I say unto him that My Son has made it known that you, My child, are not to have any spiritual director, for you will do better by yourself." (Our Lady, October 6, 1976)

    [2]May 13, 1975, New York channel 11 news: "She's a good devout person, I would say nothing about her character at all." (Msgr. King)

    [3]Joel 2:1-3.


    Did the Brooklyn Chancery "investigate" Veronica?
  FAQ on Our Lady of the Roses apparitions  
  Fr. Robert Skurla on the Bayside apparitions
    No investigation: in Veronica's own words
    Doctors who said "miracle"
    Letter of psychologist Dr. O'Keefe on Veronica
  Letter by Veronica to a nun
  Fr. Bernard Nunes, O.C.D. 
  Fr. Guillermo Flores y Flores

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